SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby Sebastian Nibisz » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:00 pm

Surgery went well, thanks.
The new version will be available in this month. Unfortunately, I do not know yet which version will be released, because I still implement the masks.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby NastayDrek » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:24 am

every time i try doing a batch, the program shuts down. Is there anyway this cannot happen?
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby Sebastian Nibisz » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:06 pm

Please show your batch processing dialog.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby aaronpriest » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:39 am

Hi Sebastian,

Couple questions:

1) 360° mode is grayed out with Alpha 3, will this be implemented soon? I have some equirectangular HDR panoramas I'd like to work on with 2.0. :-)
2) I can't find a way to export a preset in 2.0. I like to export them to the folder my final images are in just so I can recreate them later with the same settings or re-use the same settings in the future if I reload my computer, etc.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby HDR_h8r » Wed May 04, 2016 4:00 pm

Hi!
I've been testing the Alpha 3 for the last couple of weeks and there are a few points I would like to voice.

1. In my (new) workflow I use SNS-HDR to do only the tone mapping. Which means that I do the HDR merging (aligning and deghosting) elsewhere. Because these are stitched panoramas (often upwards of 500MP) and the whole process is done in the 32-bit mode, I end up with photos of several gigabytes (in file size). Photoshop does not allow me to save these huge photos in the OpenEXR or Radiance HDR formats. So, my only options are PSD (if the file is small enough), PSB or TIFF. In the case of TIFFs, the final (compressed) size must not exceed 4GB. So far I've been OK but with some of the panos I am already starting to push that boundary.
Since SNS-HDR does not accept PSB files, my only option is the compressed TIFF. And by the way, I must commend you, Sebastian, for making the 32-bit, ZIP, Predictor-compressed TIFFs readable by your software. However, there IS an issue:
I cannot get away from the Linear AdobeRGB while working in Photoshop. In the "Save As" dialog, I'm presented with the option to either tag my TIFF with that colorspace or save it untagged.
When I open the same photo in SNS-HDR (32-bit TIFF), I am not asked which colorspace to assign to the photo. If in photoshop I chose to save the photo untagged, then the tones and colors in SNS look the way they're supposed to. However, if in Photoshop I choose to tag the photo with the Adobe RGB linear, the tones in SNS-HDR are waaaaay off. So, it would seem that the only sensible way to do this, would be to simply save my TIFFs without any profile assigned to them... But we all know that this is not a proper way to color-manage photos. Besides, what happens in the end is this:
After I do my tone mapping in SNS and choose to save the result as a 16-bit TIFF I am not asked anything about the colorspace and the output photo ends up being tagged with sRGB. I now have to reopen the photo in Photoshop and convert it from sRGB to AdobeRGB(1998), which isn't even a real bother, but we all know that this is not the right way to handle them pesky colors. I realize that this is an "Alpha" and I know that color management is a bitch. But I still had to bring this to your attention to make sure this wasn't an oversight and that the final version 2 will have this thing nailed down.

2. Second thing. Will the official release have exportable and importable presets, just like in version 1.4? I know that the answer to that is probably "yes". I'm just making sure that you did not forget about it.


3. I know that this one is a tall order, and I'm not even asking anything here. However, I am making a suggestion that maybe in future versions (like version 3, for instance), you should start implementing the Photoshop's PSB format. Keep in mind that some of us have to deal with files of enormous sizes, where even the compressed TIFF simply doesn't cut it. Given that I did not investigate this in any depth I may be wrong here. I know that, technically, OpenEXR has no limit on the file size but is that really true? If so, is the limit imposed by Photoshop? I have version CS6, btw. However it may be, I'm not saying that you should start doing something about it right away. Just keep in mind that the file sizes are growing and do whatever is necessary to accommodate for it in the future versions of SNS-HDR. And I'm not talking only about the input. The ability to save humongous 16-bit photos also must be there eventually, whatever the actual file format it may be.

That's pretty much it. Kudos on the interface and the multitude of very advanced controls! Alpha 3 is so much faster and responsive than the latest official release. And I'm hoping that it's not only because the package is still so "light". At any rate, I could not possibly tell how much low-level coding you're actually doing there but I would like to shake your hand anyway.
Your software has the best HDR tone mapping ever!

David.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby Sebastian Nibisz » Thu May 05, 2016 3:59 pm

If Photoshop can save large images in TIFF format, it should be able to save these images in the OpenEXR format. Files stored in this format are much smaller (16 bits per channel instead of 32). I don't know how the Photoshop support the OpenEXR format, I don't have it.

SNS-HDR uses color profiles embedded in the images, or sRGB profile embedded profil not exist. The image is processing with the input color profile. This profil also is saved. If the image has a embedded Adobe RGB profile, the image should be displayed correctly. Can you share me a small sample image?

The final version will allow export and import presets. Currently used presets are stored in the directory "C:\Users\UserName\Documents\SNS-HDR\Presets"

Probably I will implement support for PSB format, but it has to wait. I would first prepare a version of the SNS-HDR for OS X.

I try to keep a high responsiveness interface, but the masks slow down processing. Currently I implement some tricks to speed up the processing with masks. I will prepare version with AVX instructions after release the final version. This instructions should greatly speed up processing on the the new processors.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby HDR_h8r » Thu May 05, 2016 9:17 pm

Hey! It's great to hear from you!
Well, the whole OpenEXR thing is kind of sketchy. I am actually surprised that Photoshop supports it at all. But it is a fact that with large 32-bit files my only 2 options are PSB and TIFF. It might be possible to later convert PSB to OpenEXR but the only option I was able to find is some very iffy command line converter that costs $200 (!).. Maybe in the future... Don't worry about it just now but like I already said, file sizes will only increase and the future versions of SNS should be able to handle photos of enormous dimensions and, consequently, huge file sizes.

About the colors... After reading your post it kinda makes sense now. In Photoshop, in the 32-bit mode, the AdobeRGB is automatically treated as a "linear" profile. So when I save a 32-bit TIFF and tag it with the AdobeRGB, that's exactly what SNS sees, ONLY it treats the tones as though they have a standard, non-linear gamma. Hence the washed out look.
According to you, if the photo is untagged, it gets the sRGB assigned to it. That explains why the colors and tones look different, however, I'm still trying to figure out why the difference is SOOOO huge (when it shouldn't be). So, basically, I'm just experimenting with this, trying to figure this thing out. But don't you think that the default convention regarding the treatment of untagged photos should have at least some sort of customization as opposed to the automatic assignment of the sRGB profile? Or better still: If there is no color profile in the photo, why not present the user with a selection of color spaces in the "Open Image" dialog box? I don't want to come off as being pushy but color management is kind of very important. More often than not, if it's not implemented correctly, the difference between the "right colors" and "wrong colors" is trivial. However, every now and then the colors end up looking very, very wrong. BTW, I'm not talking specifically about SNS-HDR.
So anyway, those were my 2 cents.
Thanks for pointing out to me the location of the presets and keep doing the great job that you're doing!

David.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby Sebastian Nibisz » Thu May 05, 2016 10:51 pm

More options for color management will be in the final version.
In the case of such large panoramas you try to stitch HDR images. Large image will have a less local contrast.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby Trystero » Sat May 07, 2016 7:33 pm

Sebastian Nibisz wrote:I would first prepare a version of the SNS-HDR for OS X.


Great! Now I am working on a MacPro, with SNS-HDR in a Windows virtual machine (Parallels) but it is very annoying to switch in and out this way.
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Re: SNS-HDR Pro 2.0 Alpha 3

Postby HDR_h8r » Thu May 12, 2016 9:49 pm

Hey, Sebastian!
At some point you should really implement a B&W mode. Obviously, the way to do it now is to output a full-color tiff and then take it to Lightroom or Photoshop and use the channel mixer to achieve the desired look. It goes without saying that having proper B&W conversion tools at the tone-mapping stage would be so much better. Pulling out those smooth gradients from 32 bits beats them 16-bit tiffs any day.

Most people don't realize it but suitable subject matter can look quite spectacular in B&W, especially when properly exposed, merged and tone-mapped in an awesome software like SNS-HDR.

Just an idea for ya... (I think it's a good one)

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